This piggy-backs on the idea of giving creatures (animals or humans) more than they deserve... And if not there, then definitely with the public-private issue.
What do I, the individual, owe to society? What obligations do I have to society? (all other things equal, of course)
Example: Do I have any moral obligation to society to be healthy? Or is that obligation strictly personal?
When is it a public issue whether or not I'm healthy? (When the house must be deconstructed so the construction crew can come lift me up? Or now, when I'm moderately healthy (healthy enough to keep waking up, anyhow *laughs*), but still making 'bad' decisions.
This leads right into smoking cigarettes (won't touch other 'smoke-ables', because that's an entirely different debate *ehem*) - it's my personal choice to continue this bad habit, is it not? At what point is it no longer my choice? ...assumedly, when it inflicts upon someone else's health. (Which leads into a discussion between me and Matt about the so-called 'causal connections' of smoking and cancer...)
Doesn't consistency require those 'fashionable' individuals who dump buckets of perfume and cologne over their heads to stop? _My_ health may not be afflicted, but my nose and head hurt when they walk by... But for those who have allergies to perfume, this habit might be harmful.
Nevermind the societal health that's damned thanks to all the pollutants that we infuse the air with in the name of economics and industrialization...
So I ask: What obligation do I have to society as an individual?
I realize that society gave me the option to be an individual... but where's the line in reverse?
((Don't get me wrong -- I try to be a thoughtful and aware smoker. I lift my cigarette up to get it away from children because they are still developing, and away from the elderly (unless they themselves are smoking), and I try to stand downwind from people, so that they are not forced to inhale my individual choice. But I refuse to just put my smoke out because someone else is inconvenienced... that, to me, is stepping over a line. Meanwhile, we're all sucking tailpipe... kids moreso than adults, simply because of their being 'vertically challenged'.))
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5 comments:
*laughs*
Okay, it was a short-ER...
Baby steps. =-)
I appreciate the relative brevity. The "we're all sucking tailpipe" ploy sounds/smells like either 1. a red herring or 2. tu quoque fallacy. What do you think?
dkj
I think my to quoque totally derailed the point of my post... We're all sucking tailpipe, but pointing that out doesn't lessen the (supposed) harm to others that my smoking is doing.
*sigh*
Okay, so scratch the last paragraph.. and quite arguably the entirely last section, to be rid of the fallacious rant.
This snippet is the main question of the post:
"What do I, the individual, owe to society? What obligations do I have to society? (all other things equal, of course)"
My smoking is my private choice. At what point can society rightly demand that I stop? (can it even be demanded?) And, at that point, what reason do I have for yielding to the wishes of the public?
You write:
"This snippet is the main question of the post:
"What do I, the individual, owe to society? What obligations do I have to society? (all other things equal, of course)"
You have a knack for raising very large questions (if, at times, in the guise of little ones). I consider society to be equivalent to some set of individuals. So you are really asking what you owe others, in my view. That is the central question of all ethics.
"My smoking is my private choice. At what point can society rightly demand that I stop? (can it even be demanded?) And, at that point, what reason do I have for yielding to the wishes of the public?"
Whenever the individuals who compose society have good reason to demand that of you; that is, whenever you are unjustly harming them. Your reasons for respecting their wishes are the usual ones of moral obligation.
"So you are really asking what you owe others, in my view. That is the central question of all ethics."
You know what really depresses me about studying ethics and morality and virtue? I learn how to be a good person, or maybe just better than I was. And while I rejoice in this, it becomes an oddity in real life.
How can I be a virtuous person if virtue and ethics and 'being good' are not employed by society? (We say we want to be good, that we believe in freedom, equality and justice... But our actions bely the hypocrisy.)
I was about to ask: Why bother being good, when so few people will join in the virtuous and valient effort? Why feel obliged to society, when the individuals in that society feel no obligation to me?... but that's not the right question to ask. That's just the question that I battle every time I walk out the door. In this light, I understand the statement about not confusing the consequences of right actions with the right actions themselves.
"Whenever the individuals who compose society have good reason to demand that of you; that is, whenever you are unjustly harming them. Your reasons for respecting their wishes are the usual ones of moral obligation."
This assumes that the general public reasons (aka consciously thinks), _and_ thinks outside of themselves, for the benefit of everyone.
For as much as I want to believe your words, I can't. The way you say it is the way (I think) it should be. That's not the way it is though...
In a society raised by capitalism to be selfish, how else can people be expected to act?
I think that capitalism, for all the positives that it's brought us, has degraded the idea of being a community so that we are really individuals who have chosen to live in the same place.
I don't live in a community of people who keep watch over each other's houses, or neighbors who go out of their way to make sure they're not taking advantage of me. *I* worry about these things, but they don't. (In fact, my neighbor is not concerned about repairing the damage he did to the first floor apartment, or repaying us, or offering to help out. However, he is worried about the car that he just bought being safe in our garage.)
He's a nice guy. He's just selfish. And he'll outright admit it.
We worry about ourselves first, then others... if we've got the time.
I hope that overall, I'm wrong. That people DO work to respect each other, not screw each other over, et cetera. I'd love to live in such a place...
I just don't see it happening.
"Money talks"... and morals walk.
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